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March 24, 2011
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3:28 am
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mathfour:
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Got it - thanks! @schoolmarmde New topic for #homeschool #math. How to plan time for both process & outcome testing modes. #ill #HSMath |
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1:11 pm
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mathfour:
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Tonight 9pm CST #HSMath party. We'll choose initial topics for #homeschool #math parents (& renegade teachers) http://ht.ly/4lrVf |
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1:16 pm
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mathfour:
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I'm crazy - I just tweeted the wrong tweet! #HSMath is about real world math & formulas http://ht.ly/4lsdk (for #homeschool #math folks) |
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1:18 pm
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mathfour:
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I'm crazy - I just tweeted the wrong tweet! #HSMath is about real world math & formulas http://ht.ly/4lsjY (for #homeschool #math folks) |
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2:43 pm
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SchoolmarmDE:
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RT @mathfour: Tonight 9pm CST #HSMath party. We'll choose initial topics for #homeschool #math parents (& renegade teachers) http://ht.ly/4lrVf |
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8:00 pm
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mathfour:
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Will you be there for #HSMath? Today at 9pm CST. http://ht.ly/4lrVf topic: Teach real world math and keep needed formulas. |
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8:02 pm
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nolamom76:
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RT: @mathfour: Will you be there for #HSMath? Today at 9pm CST. http://ht.ly/4lrVf topic: Teach real world math and keep needed formulas. |
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8:34 pm
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Turkeydoodles:
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#HSMath tonight 10PM ET. @mathfour THINKS we'll be talking about real-life math and *teaching* formulae. Come watch the smackdown! >:) |
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8:54 pm
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mathfour:
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You're crackin' me up! RT @turkeydoodles: #HSMath tonight 10PM ET ... Come watch the smackdown! >:) |
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9:09 pm
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Turkeydoodles:
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@mathfour You think I'm kidding, hon - I'm a constructivist at heart! Bring it! >;) #hsmath |
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March 25, 2011
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1:55 am
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mathfour:
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Tonight's topic: Getting enough algorithms and formulas in while teaching real world math. In 5 minutes... #HSMath |
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1:56 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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@mathfour #HSmath Heh - that's what SHE thinks. This is going to be a mathematical smackdown, folks. You won't want to miss it! >:) |
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2:00 am
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mathfour:
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I'm not sure if I should start with a "welcome" or a boxing bell... @Turkeydoodles! #HSMath |
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2:00 am
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mathfour:
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Hi y'all! Welcome to Homeschool Math Chat! #HSMath |
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2:01 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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Ding Ding! #hsmath |
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2:01 am
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mathfour:
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Tonight's "official" topic is ?How do you teach real world math and still get in enough formulas and algorithms?? #HSMath |
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2:02 am
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giaimojosephine:
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Am heading over to #HSMath see you soon, everyone, and many thank yous... #mathchat |
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2:02 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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So, @mathfour, can you tell us what you mean by "enough formulae and algorithms?" Enquiring minds want to know... #hsmath |
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2:03 am
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nolamom76:
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going to be late to #HSMath, I need to put the 2 yr old to bed, I got caught up planning science |
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2:03 am
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mathfour:
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@giaimojosephine Welcome! #HSMath |
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2:03 am
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mathfour:
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@Turkeydoodles And that's the first question: What's the level that is enough, when we talk about algorithms and forumlas? #HSMath |
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2:04 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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@nolamom76 No worries, we'll still be fighting when you get here. ;) #hsmath |
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2:04 am
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mathfour:
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@nolamom76 Take your time, 2yo cuties are always priority! :D #HSMath |
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2:04 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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@mathfour I was actually hoping that you could talk about why you think teaching them is important AT ALL first. #hsmath |
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2:05 am
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mathfour:
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Do you measure by what's needed for transition from HS to public school? #HSMath |
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2:05 am
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mathfour:
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@Turkeydoodles They may not be. But if they go to college (or ever transition to PS) they might face a teacher who uses them. #HSMath |
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2:06 am
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mathfour:
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So maybe that's the first question - is it important to teach algorithms and/or formulas at all? #HSMath |
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2:06 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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I'm not saying they aren't useful, just that maybe TEACHING them isn't the best way for students to encounter them. #hsmath |
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2:07 am
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mathfour:
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@Turkeydoodles Then shall we rephrase to "what is the value of learning algorithms"? #HSMath |
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2:08 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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Sounds good to me!
RT @mathfour: Then shall we rephrase to "what is the value of learning algorithms"? #hsmath |
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2:08 am
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mathfour:
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@Turkeydoodles Is there anything that you teach your kids to do by rote that they later learn the meaning of? (like "please"?) #HSMath |
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2:08 am
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EarlSamuelson:
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Show enough real life scenarios so that patterns begin to emerge; then build the algorithms from those results #HSmath |
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2:09 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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But then again, no - it doesn't. I think that DISCOVERING algorithms is useful, but being taught them less so. #hsmath |
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2:09 am
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mathfour:
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@Turkeydoodles And technically, addition is an algorithm. Add the one's place. Then the tens place... #HSMath |
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2:09 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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@EarlSamuelson Then let THEM build the algorithms from those results. Facilitate the process maybe, but let it be theirs. #hsmath |
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2:10 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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Yup - and you don't have to do it that way, either. RT @mathfour: @Turkeydoodles And technically, addition is an algorithm. #hsmath |
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2:10 am
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mathfour:
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@Turkeydoodles @EarlSamuelson Will that work for everything? #HSMath |
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2:10 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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I model please with my kids, and they started doing it, recognizing that it got them the results they wanted. #hsmath |
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2:11 am
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mathfour:
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@Turkeydoodles Okay, I'm curious. How do you teach addition? #HSMath |
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2:11 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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Well, I don't expect my kids to come up with trigonometry on their own, no, but by then I expect them to be used to digging deep #hsmath |
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2:12 am
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EarlSamuelson:
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@mathfour @turkeydoodles That's a good question.....I guess that's where our creativeness comes into play #HSmath |
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2:12 am
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EarlSamuelson:
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@Turkeydoodles I agree.... #HSmath |
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2:13 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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We just count up from where we left off right now. Some regrouping, some estimating, often starting with the biggest PV 1st! #hsmath |
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2:13 am
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mathfour:
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@EarlSamuelson @Turkeydoodles To what level can you teach without doing any algorithm teaching? #HSMath |
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2:14 am
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mathfour:
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@Turkeydoodles At the point when you ask them to dig in Trig, will you give an algorithm and then let them play with it? #HSMath |
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2:14 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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I'm not sure, we haven't gotten there yet. ;) I think one could get pretty far though, with a kid who is used to working out #hsmath |
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2:15 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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how things really WORK, not just following steps to an answer. #hsmath |
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2:15 am
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mylittlesoapbox:
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I teach algorithms and formulas. They are useful much like learning musical theory is useful. #hsmath |
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2:15 am
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EarlSamuelson:
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@mathfour I'm not convinced we shouldn't be teaching algorithms....I believe we should from a very early age but through discovery #HSmath |
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2:16 am
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mathfour:
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@Turkeydoodles So when is an algorithm valuable to help learn how things really work? #HSMath |
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2:16 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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I'd rather give them some examples with 'answers' and let them tinker with them awhihle. #hsmath |
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2:17 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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I think that algorithms ARE useful - I just think they are more useful when they are discovered than when they are delivered. #hsmath |
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2:17 am
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EarlSamuelson:
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@mylittlesoapbox I agree #HSmath |
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2:17 am
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Machemes:
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@Turkeydoodles So when is an macheme valuable to help learn how things really work? #HSMath |
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2:17 am
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mathfour:
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@EarlSamuelson Indeed - the discovery process solidifies the process (because they've created the process themselves) #HSMath |
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2:17 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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I also think that there is more than one way to skin a cat, and that we deprive ourselves of deep understanding by only taking 1 way #hsmath |
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2:18 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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@Machemes Um... what is a macheme, please? #hsmath |
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2:18 am
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EarlSamuelson:
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@mathfour I agree and there is meaning attached as well #HSmath |
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2:18 am
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giaimojosephine:
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#hsmath What about the parents who want their children to be taught algorithms, don't want U to use a discovering method? <= complaints! |
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2:19 am
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mathfour:
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Now that, I'll RT @Turkeydoodles: There's more than one way; we deprive ourselves of deep understanding by only taking 1 way #HSMath |
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2:19 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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Did anyone see those studies that came out this week about teacher with a new toy, and her approach? #hsmath |
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2:19 am
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EarlSamuelson:
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@Turkeydoodles once again, I agree completely #HSmath |
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2:19 am
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giaimojosephine:
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Doesn't a discovery approach often take longer, esp. with a very mixed ability group? #HSMath |
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2:19 am
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mathfour:
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@Turkeydoodles Link? (I didn't see it) #HSMath |
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2:19 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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parents who want their kids to shut up and do what they are told? I figure it is my job to teach their kids to THINK #hsmath |
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2:20 am
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mathfour:
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So let's assume that there is value in learning/discovering algorithms. Which ones are most important for kids to know for college? #HSMath |
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2:20 am
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giaimojosephine:
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RT @Turkeydoodles: ...we deprive ourselves of deep understanding by only taking 1 way #hsmath <== Like this! |
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2:20 am
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mylittlesoapbox:
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@giaimojosephine you mean other parents? or yourself? #hsmath |
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2:20 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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@giaimojosephine I'm certain it does, but what a gift that would be! Sure, some kids will be more guided than others, but still! #hsmath |
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2:21 am
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mathfour:
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@giaimojosephine This would be especially challenging if the homeschool kids were different levels or transitioning to public school #HSMath |
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2:21 am
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EarlSamuelson:
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@giaimojosephine I'm not sure why parents would prefer that approach to one that instills understanding through discovery #HSmath |
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2:21 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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I'll try to find the article for you, @mathfour - great stuff about how kids who are TAUGHT something don't discover anything else #hsmath |
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2:22 am
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mathfour:
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@giaimojosephine And discovery in a mixed class can be fun - if you put them in teams or couples. #HSMath |
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2:22 am
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Saskateach:
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RT @mathfour: Now that, I'll RT @Turkeydoodles: There's more than one way; we deprive ourselves of deep understanding by only taking 1 way #HSMath |
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2:22 am
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mathfour:
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@Turkeydoodles I can't wait to read it. Sounds like it would be interesting. (and controversial) #HSMath |
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2:22 am
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giaimojosephine:
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RT @mylittlesoapbox: @giaimojosephine you mean other parents? or yourself? #hsmath parents (who liked the teacher b4 me...) |
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2:22 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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I've had kids come into my classes from other programs that didn't cover the content as broadly, but depth makes up for it, IMO #hsmath |
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2:23 am
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mylittlesoapbox:
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I think I use more of a exposure followed by practical application. IE we talked about area then built our coop. #hsmath |
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2:23 am
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Saskateach:
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RT @Turkeydoodles: parents who want their kids to shut up and do what they are told? I figure it is my job to teach their kids to THINK #hsmath |
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2:23 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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Not controversial at all - kids believe the adults around them. If they are told this is how something works, they just swallow it #hsmath |
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2:24 am
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giaimojosephine:
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RT... kids who are TAUGHT something don't discover anything else #hsmath |
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2:24 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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If you want to encourage kids to do their own thinking, cultivate your OWN curiosity, model discovery, then let them at it! #hsmath |
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2:24 am
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mathfour:
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@Turkeydoodles Not always. Remember the story of me and the 4th grade teacher who said a square wasn't a rectangle? #HSMath |
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2:24 am
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EarlSamuelson:
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@mathfour the whole point of algorithms is to quickly and abstractly represent "real life" scenarios.....gets easier with use #HSmath |
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2:25 am
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mathfour:
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The more I think about this, the more I disagree: ... kids who are TAUGHT something dont discover anything else #HSMath |
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2:25 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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No, I don't, #mathfour, sorry. :/ #hsmath |
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2:25 am
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mathfour:
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Good def: RT @EarlSamuelson: point of algorithms is to quickly and abstractly represent "real life" scenarios...gets easier with use #HSMath |
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2:25 am
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Saskateach:
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RT @Turkeydoodles: If you want to encourage kids to do their own thinking, cultivate your OWN curiosity, model discovery, then let them at it! #hsmath |
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2:25 am
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giaimojosephine:
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RT the 4th grade teacher who said a square wasn't a rectangle? #HSMath ...differs depending on the textbook, too, sadly... |
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2:26 am
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EarlSamuelson:
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@mathfour a square IS a
Special case of a rectangle.....I've had to diffuse that one too #HSmath |
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2:26 am
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mathfour:
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@giaimojosephine My textbook's def was square: 4 equal sides/angles. rect: 4 equal angles (so I was right) #HSMath |
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2:26 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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Can you explain why you disagree, @mathfour? #hsmath |
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2:27 am
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giaimojosephine:
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Algorithms are good; real life is good; is this the "theory" vs. "applied" argument in another cloak? #HSMath |
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2:28 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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Algorithms are, to me, tools that one can use to do more quickly something that one has already mastered how to do slowly #hsmath |
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2:28 am
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mathfour:
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@Turkeydoodles Yup - kids who are taught to think (in any area) will think through algorithms to get at meaning, regardless. #HSMath |
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2:28 am
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EarlSamuelson:
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@giaimojosephine theory and applied do not have to be mutually exclusive #HSmath |
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2:28 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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Sort of like your calculator argument, Bon. (And you are giving mine! Hah!) #hsmath |
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2:28 am
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mathfour:
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@Turkeydoodles They can be taught and then encouraged to think, too. It's not one or the other. #HSMath |
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2:29 am
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mathfour:
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@giaimojosephine It's starting to feel like that, isn't it? #HSMath |
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2:29 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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But letting them work out the algorithms for themselves is such a natural place to let them learn how to think! #hsmath |
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2:30 am
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mathfour:
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@EarlSamuelson @giaimojosephine The problem lies in the kids who were taught and then taught to not question that teaching. #HSMath |
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2:31 am
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mathfour:
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@Turkeydoodles Unless it creates frustration or decreases their ability to function in college later. #HSMath |
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2:31 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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How many kids have you seen muddle up the algorithms for mutliplyling and dividing fractions? #hsmath |
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2:31 am
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mathfour:
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@Turkeydoodles You're taking the "one way" approach. Why not give them some algorithms and let them create some. Do both? #HSMath |
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2:31 am
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giaimojosephine:
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I like the way one can teach pi experientially AND can also teach about pi as a formula...maybe both is best, not one or the other #HSMath |
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2:31 am
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nolamom76:
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I'm here, finally, my kids are not being cooperative souls today, I'm going to try and catch up
#HSmath |
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2:31 am
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EarlSamuelson:
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@mathfour that's not teaching.....they should be encouraged to question things; curiosity drives learning #HSmath |
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2:31 am
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mylittlesoapbox:
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@Turkeydoodles What about the child that is not drawn to the world of numbers? #hsmath |
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2:32 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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Just like teaching proofs in geometry, I think that proving to someone that they are capable of working out where the formula came #hsmath |
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2:32 am
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mathfour:
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@EarlSamuelson Did you diffuse it as a grown-up? I was in 4th grade fighting with the teacher. She was wrong. I let it go. #HSMath |
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2:32 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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cont - from is valid, both in terms of teaching thinking, but also in terms of promoting self-efficacy. #hsmath |
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2:32 am
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mathfour:
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@mylittlesoapbox Does said child lack fingers? #HSMath |
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2:33 am
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giaimojosephine:
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be encouraged to question things; curiosity drives learning #HSmath <= so true! Have you seen FlipClass? I think that's what it's called. |
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2:33 am
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nolamom76:
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@EarlSamuelson @mathfour learned something new, had no clue a square was considered a rectangle interesting #HSmath |
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2:33 am
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EarlSamuelson:
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@mathfour I always questioned those things as a kid too #HSmath |
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2:33 am
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mylittlesoapbox:
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@mathfour Not incapable. Just not interested. Also not my child. But nonetheless there is no interest thus no exploration. #hsmath |
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2:34 am
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mathfour:
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@nolamom76 Hey there! We have @mylittlesoapbox, @EarlSamuelson, @giaimojosephine and the very quiet @Turkeydoodles who'd I miss? #HSMath |
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2:34 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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@mathfour I like the idea of OFFERING algorithms, like "hm, I lilke your way. Here's how I do them." #hsmath |
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2:34 am
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mathfour:
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@mylittlesoapbox What is his (her?) interest? #HSMath |
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2:34 am
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giaimojosephine:
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#hsmath "Dr. Pat" Kenschaft says that we are hardwired both for math and language (see her book: "MathPower") |
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2:35 am
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EarlSamuelson:
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@giaimojosephine I haven't seen flip class but it's a very obvious statement #HSmath |
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2:35 am
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mathfour:
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@Turkeydoodles that sounds familiar - did you write that on your blog? #HSMath |
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2:35 am
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mathheadinc:
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RT @earlsamuelson: @giaimojosephine theory and applied do not have to be mutually exclusive #HSmath |
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2:35 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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Hey, I resemble that remark! ;) #hsmath |
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2:35 am
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mathfour:
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I totally believe that RT @giaimojosephine Kenschaft says that we are hardwired both for math and language (see "MathPower") #HSMath |
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2:36 am
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mathheadinc:
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@earlsamuelson G. H. Hardy was surprised by how much of the pure math he studied had applications. #HSmath |
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2:36 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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@giaimojosephine Pat Kenschaft ROCKS MY WORLD. >:) #hsmath |
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2:36 am
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mylittlesoapbox:
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@mathfour for one it's writing. for another it's art. Different families. Math is always the YUCK subject. #hsmath |
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2:36 am
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mathfour:
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@mylittlesoapbox I'll bet if you identified his/her real interest, you could find a math thing in there somewhere. #HSMath |
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2:36 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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@mathfour Not yet I didn't! (re blog) #hsmath |
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2:37 am
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mathfour:
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@mylittlesoapbox I convinced an ex-con that he could do oilfield math by showing him that measuring drugs was doing fractions. #HSMath |
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2:37 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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@mylittlesoapbox I think that math is the yuck subject for so many BECAUSE of the meaninglessness of delivered algorithms #hsmath |
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2:37 am
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EarlSamuelson:
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Circle is a special case of an ellipse too #HSmath Have them discover why geometrically and then algebraically |
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2:37 am
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giaimojosephine:
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RT @Turkeydoodles: @giaimojosephine Pat Kenschaft ROCKS MY WORLD. >:) #hsmath <= she has continued to inspire me in my teaching... |
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2:37 am
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mathfour:
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@Turkeydoodles I read or wrote that recently. So many words... they get all mixed up... ::cooky eyes:: #HSMath |
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2:38 am
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EarlSamuelson:
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@mathheadinc it is all born out of necessity #HSmath |
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2:38 am
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mathfour:
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@mylittlesoapbox Alrighty - so we tap into writing and art. No problem. Those are good for math. Esp art. #HSMath |
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2:38 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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@mathfour Get out of my brain, woman! ;) #hsmath |
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2:38 am
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giaimojosephine:
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RT Circle/rhombus is a special case of an ellipse/parallelogram too #HSmath Have them discover why geometrically and then algebraically |
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2:38 am
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mathfour:
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Great one! RT @EarlSamuelson: Circle is a special case of an ellipse too #HSmath Have them discover why #HSMath |
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2:39 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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I get frustrated when I see kids get bogged down in algorithms they don't understand, and think that is all there is to math! #hsmath |
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2:39 am
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mylittlesoapbox:
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@mathfour perhaps. like I said not my kids. Just curious what others would do with an uninterested child. #hsmath |
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2:40 am
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giaimojosephine:
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what others would do with an uninterested child. #hsmath ...I would play games...how old is the child? |
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2:40 am
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mathfour:
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I think it's because of the FORCED algorithms RT @Turkeydoodles: math is the yuck subject BECAUSE of the meaninglessness algorithms #HSMath |
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2:40 am
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mathfour:
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@mylittlesoapbox Send them my way. That's a great challenge. #HSMath |
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2:40 am
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nolamom76:
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@mylittlesoapbox @mathfour when mine was uninterested it was because he was bored, he knew the material and wanted to move on
#HSmath |
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2:41 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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@mylittlesoapbox I'd hand them a calculator and play carcassonne with them, or build with legos. Both math, but by the other door #hsmath |
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2:41 am
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nolamom76:
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@mylittlesoapbox @mathfour instead our curriculum repeated the same thing every day with very little new concepts introduced. #HSmath |
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2:41 am
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EarlSamuelson:
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@giaimojosephine so many similar connections.....great oppotunities to see patterns geometrically first and then algebraically #HSmath |
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2:42 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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@nolamom76 frustrated passion! Gah! #hsmath |
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2:42 am
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mathfour:
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Another thing to do is create CRAZY algorithms. Change the rules. Make the words all different. LOIF instead of FOIL, e.g. #HSMath |
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2:42 am
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mylittlesoapbox:
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@nolamom76 Oh yep. Tossed that repetition here too. I'm handy with the big x and moving on in our math LOL #hsmath |
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2:42 am
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CutTheKnotMath:
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@nolamom76 Square a rectangle? There are inclusive and exclusive definitions. Is square rhombus, parallelogram, trapezoid? #HSMath |
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2:42 am
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mathfour:
|
What is this thing over here? Squishy. Oops.. didn't mean to do THAT. RT @Turkeydoodles: @mathfour Get out of my brain, woman! ;) #HSMath |
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2:43 am
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Turkeydoodles:
|
@mathfour Again, though, with Loif you get under the algorithm to actual MEANING - makes all the difference, IMO #hsmath |
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2:43 am
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nolamom76:
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@mylittlesoapbox that is what I have started to do, he hates it and if he has too much he will make careless mistakes just because #HSmath |
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2:44 am
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giaimojosephine:
|
RT...create CRAZY algorithms. Change the rules. Make the words all different. LOIF instead of FOIL, e.g. #HSMath Zombie FLUX! |
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2:44 am
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Turkeydoodles:
|
@nolamom76 Have you tried Kahn Academy with him? get 9 right to prove mastery and move on! #hsmath |
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2:45 am
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CutTheKnotMath:
|
@earlsamuelson How do you discover that circle is an ellipse? #HSMath |
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2:45 am
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Turkeydoodles:
|
I never can remember the 'tricks' for fraction multiplication - I know what the ansewwr should be and work backward to find them! #hsmath |
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2:45 am
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mathfour:
|
Are there certain formulas that they MUST know for college? And how can you get them to know those before going? #HSMath |
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2:46 am
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mathfour:
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@giaimojosephine Zombie FLUX - do tell! #HSMath |
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2:46 am
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nolamom76:
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@Turkeydoodles there are tricks for fraction multiplication? Would love to know them, that is what we are working on. #HSmath |
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2:46 am
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Turkeydoodles:
|
For college in general, or for a technical degree? If the latter, presumably they've picked them up or figured them out by then. #hsmath |
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2:47 am
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EarlSamuelson:
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@CutTheKnotMath geometrically......decrease distance between foci ...shape approaches that of a circle #HSmath |
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2:47 am
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mathfour:
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@nolamom76 @Turkeydoodles Maybe these? http://goo.gl/q9aC6 #HSMath |
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2:47 am
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Turkeydoodles:
|
Then again, I expect a great deal of self-determination from my high school students, so YMMV #hsmath |
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2:47 am
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giaimojosephine:
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RT @mathfour: @giaimojosephine Zombie FLUX - do tell! #HSMath ...FLUX is a card game where the rules keep changing...Zombie is one type |
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2:48 am
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mathfour:
|
@Turkeydoodles If they go to just about any 2nd-ary school, they'll have to take or test out of College Algebra. #HSMath |
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2:48 am
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Turkeydoodles:
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@nolamom76 Let your kids play with measuring cups and work out the answers for themselves physically. Food coloring in water! #hsmath |
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2:48 am
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mathfour:
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@EarlSamuelson @CutTheKnotMath The foci can be equal right - then it is really the center? #HSMath |
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2:48 am
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mathfour:
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@giaimojosephine You're totally teasing us! #HSMath |
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2:48 am
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CutTheKnotMath:
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@earlsamuelson Circle=equidistant from a point. Ellipse=sum of distances from two points is constant. #HSMath |
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2:49 am
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nolamom76:
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@Turkeydoodles , his mistakes come in with converting improper fractions to mixed numbers and back #HSmath |
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2:49 am
|
mathfour:
|
So they will need y = mx + b (with those letters) to test out of College Algebra. How do you ensure they know it? #HSMath |
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2:49 am
|
Turkeydoodles:
|
@mathfour So they need to know how to solve equations and plug and chug? Any HS senior can learn the latter. #hsmath |
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2:50 am
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giaimojosephine:
|
I play FLUX about once a month w/my Mensa friends...but the lawyers who come to the event won't play FLUX...they like static rules! #HSMath |
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2:50 am
|
mathfour:
|
@nolamom76 @Turkeydoodles Are his mistakes consistant or is he just making arithmetical errors along the way? #HSMath |
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2:50 am
|
CutTheKnotMath:
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@mathfour @EarlSamuelson Ah, that's a matter of definition. BTW, I agree. But I do not believe this is a matter for discovery. #HSMath |
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2:51 am
|
Turkeydoodles:
|
@mathfour So you say "these standardized things have a standardized way of writing this. Here it is. You'll want to learn it."
#hsmath |
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2:51 am
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giaimojosephine:
|
his mistakes come in with converting improper fractions to mixed numbers and back #HSmath ...any idea as to why that's happening? |
|
2:51 am
|
mathfour:
|
@CutTheKnotMath @earlsamuelson The two points don't have to be unique. In that case the sum of the distances is just 2r of the circl #HSMath |
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2:52 am
|
Turkeydoodles:
|
@CutTheKnotMath @mathfour @EarlSamuelson No, it is a matter of logic. Teach logic, and they can prove it to themselves. #hsmath |
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2:52 am
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mathheadinc:
|
@giaimojosephine No, have you tried helping the student visualize the fractions? #HSmath |
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2:52 am
|
CutTheKnotMath:
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@mathfour @EarlSamuelson Eg, circle is conic section by a plane perp to axis. Ellipse by a slanted plane. Is perpendicular slanted? #HSMath |
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2:52 am
|
nolamom76:
|
@mathfour @Turkeydoodles arithmetical errors along the way, I think somewhere his brain gets jumbled & he gets frustrated #HSmath |
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2:52 am
|
EarlSamuelson:
|
@CutTheKnotMath how about if this distance between the foci is infinitesimal? Definition of ellipse still holds true #HSmath |
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2:52 am
|
mathfour:
|
@Turkeydoodles Wow. That's so... um... simple. And makes total sense. ::rolls eyes:: #HSMath |
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2:52 am
|
mylittlesoapbox:
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@mathfour I think we'll study mathematical history to draw more connections to the formulas one should know. #hsmath |
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2:52 am
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Turkeydoodles:
|
@nolamom76 Emphasize that 31/31 still = 1, and then go from there. #hsmath |
|
2:53 am
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mathfour:
|
@CutTheKnotMath @EarlSamuelson "slanted" means with a slope. The slope can be 0 - thus perpendicular IS slanted. #HSMath |
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2:53 am
|
giaimojosephine:
|
RT @mathheadinc: @giaimojosephine No, have you tried helping the student visualize the fractions? #HSmath sorry, I was RTing earlier tweet |
|
2:53 am
|
mathheadinc:
|
@giaimojosephine OOPS! #HSmath |
|
2:54 am
|
mathheadinc:
|
@giaimojosephine Me, not you :D #HSmath |
|
2:54 am
|
giaimojosephine:
|
RT @nolamom76: @mathfour @Turkeydoodles I think somewhere his brain gets jumbled & he gets frustrated #HSmath ...can he "check his work?" |
|
2:54 am
|
EarlSamuelson:
|
@CutTheKnotMath good point......some things may not be "effectively" learned through discovery #HSmath |
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2:54 am
|
Turkeydoodles:
|
@mathfour What are you rolling your eyes at me for? I missed something... #hsmath |
|
2:54 am
|
mylittlesoapbox:
|
@nolamom76 will he show his work or all in his head? #hsmath |
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2:54 am
|
nolamom76:
|
@Turkeydoodles thanks will try that, he gets 5/1 mixed up for some reason, instead of saying 5, he flips it to 1/5 #HSmath |
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2:54 am
|
mathheadinc:
|
Like...? RT @earlsamuelson: @CutTheKnotMath good point......some things may not be "effectively" learned through discovery #HSmath |
|
2:55 am
|
Turkeydoodles:
|
@EarlSamuelson @CutTheKnotMath But discovery PLUS LOGIC can accomplish more. #hsmath |
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2:55 am
|
nolamom76:
|
@giaimojosephine @mathfour @Turkeydoodles we are working on that, he wants to do it in his head does better when he shows his work #HSmath |
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2:55 am
|
mathheadinc:
|
@nolamom76 He may not realize that fractions are read top to bottom, just like a page in a book. #HSmath |
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2:55 am
|
Turkeydoodles:
|
@nolamom76 @Turkeydoodles Yup - need to know what a fraction is, and that if numerator is bigger than denominator = >1! #hsmath |
|
2:56 am
|
giaimojosephine:
|
RT he gets 5/1 mixed up for some reason, instead of saying 5, he flips it to 1/5 #HSmath ...dyslexia? dyscalcula? |
|
2:56 am
|
Turkeydoodles:
|
@mathheadinc @nolamom76 Or he's trying to rmember algorithms without understanding how they actually WORK #hsmath |
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2:57 am
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nolamom76:
|
@mathheadinc that's a good explanation, thanks. I'll try that. #HSmath |
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2:57 am
|
Turkeydoodles:
|
@mathheadinc @nolamom76 and getting confused. I do it all the time! #hsmath |
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2:58 am
|
nolamom76:
|
@Turkeydoodles @mathheadinc that's possible. #HSmath |
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2:58 am
|
CutTheKnotMath:
|
@Turkeydoodles @EarlSamuelson Discovery+logic accomplish more. Absolutely. There is a limit, though. Discover that medians concur. #HSMath |
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2:58 am
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EarlSamuelson:
|
@mathheadinc sometime the "groundwork" must be laid first before discovery learning can be effectively pursued #HSmath |
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2:59 am
|
mathheadinc:
|
@nolamom76 It has worked every time I've used that explanation. :) #HSmath |
|
2:59 am
|
CutTheKnotMath:
|
@Turkeydoodles @EarlSamuelson Discover that medians concur. Then use logic to make sure they always do. Does not require defintion
#HSMath |
|
2:59 am
|
giaimojosephine:
|
RT @Turkeydoodles: @mathheadinc @nolamom76 Or he's trying to rmember algorithms without understanding how they actually WORK #hsmath |
|
2:59 am
|
Turkeydoodles:
|
@EarlSamuelson @mathheadinc re groundwork - sure, facilitation and strewing are critical. As is modeling! #hsmath |
|
3:00 am
|
mathheadinc:
|
@earlsamuelson We don't. We can work with any kid who can count. That's all we require to start calc program. #HSmath |
|
3:00 am
|
Turkeydoodles:
|
@CutTheKnotMath @EarlSamuelson I'm not saying reinvent the wheel every time, just understand concepts enough to make them your own #hsmath |
|
3:00 am
|
mathfour:
|
Did I break my twitter account? #HSMath |
|
3:00 am
|
EarlSamuelson:
|
@CutTheKnotMath I like that approach #HSmath |
|
3:01 am
|
mathfour:
|
Nice! RT @mylittlesoapbox: I think we'll study mathematical history to draw more connections to the formulas one should know. #HSMath |
|
3:01 am
|
mathheadinc:
|
@mathfour I see you fine! #HSMath |
|
3:01 am
|
Turkeydoodles:
|
The thing that kills me is that kids think that math his about formulae, not what one does with the answers!!! #hsmath |
|
3:01 am
|
mathfour:
|
Wow, just had a total loss of twitter. Crumbcakes. #HSMath |
|
3:02 am
|
Turkeydoodles:
|
RT @CutTheKnotMath: Discover that medians concur. Then use logic to make sure they always do. Does not require defintion#HSMath #hsmath |
|
3:02 am
|
nolamom76:
|
@mathfour that's not good
#HSmath |
|
3:02 am
|
giaimojosephine:
|
RT ... kids think that math his about formulae, not what one does with the answers!!! #hsmath ..Dr. Pat says it's about finding patterns... |
|
3:02 am
|
mathfour:
|
Well, y'all, it's 10:02 here in the great state of Texas and that means that we're officially over. It was a great discussion! #HSMath |
|
3:02 am
|
Turkeydoodles:
|
@mathfour I did that a few ago. No worries. ;) #hsmath |
|
3:03 am
|
nolamom76:
|
Thanks everyone for helping me, work out our issue with fractions.
#HSmath |
|
3:03 am
|
mathfour:
|
Tried to do a last 5 minutes recap, but alas, fought with twitter for the last 5. Regardless, thanks for coming! #HSMath |
|
3:03 am
|
giaimojosephine:
|
It was a great discussion! #HSMath Thank you everyone, for an informative hour. You are all great. Appreciate the facilitation, too!!! |
|
3:04 am
|
mathfour:
|
I'll get the transcript up soon. But continue the discussions - I'll wait a bit before capturing things. #HSMath |
|
3:04 am
|
Turkeydoodles:
|
Yup - total smackdown! Awesome! >;) #hsmath |
|
3:04 am
|
mathheadinc:
|
@Turkeydoodles But WHY do they think that? It's how they're taught. #hsmath |
|
3:04 am
|
EarlSamuelson:
|
I think we need to roll with it and do whatever is necessary to promote understanding #HSmath Nothing is written in stone |
|
3:04 am
|
CutTheKnotMath:
|
@mathfour Sorry I was late. Enjoyed this nonetheless. Thank you. #HSMath |
|
3:04 am
|
SchoolmarmDE:
|
@mathfour Not really here, but house full of hilarity about the Fibonacci Sequence here, today. With legos. #HSMath |
|
3:04 am
|
Turkeydoodles:
|
Yup - I ditched date night with my husband for this, and he was happy for me! :) #hsmath |
|
3:05 am
|
nolamom76:
|
I thought you guys might like this #hsmath http://bit.ly/dVd6Yy |
|
3:05 am
|
EarlSamuelson:
|
RT @giaimojosephine: It was a great discussion! #HSMath Thank you everyone, for an informative hour. You are all great. Appreciate the facilitation, too!!! |
|
3:05 am
|
Turkeydoodles:
|
@mathheadinc Which is something I'm working to change! Thinking and seeing patterns is the core of math - numbers are just tools! #hsmath |
|
3:06 am
|
mathheadinc:
|
@Turkeydoodles Then go here: www.mathman.biz I learned from @TheMathman #hsmath |
|
3:06 am
|
Turkeydoodles:
|
RTish @EarlSamuelson: roll with it and do whatever necessary to promote understanding #HSmath Nothing is written in stone #hsmath |
|
3:06 am
|
Turkeydoodles:
|
@SchoolmarmDE Sounds awesome! :) #hsmath |
|
3:06 am
|
EarlSamuelson:
|
@CutTheKnotMath Thanks for clarifying my ellipse/circle example for me #HSmath |
|
3:06 am
|
mathheadinc:
|
@Turkeydoodles You can fit his methods into any curriculum and you'll probably come up with many of your own. I have :D #hsmath |
|
3:07 am
|
Turkeydoodles:
|
Will do - thanks! RT @mathheadinc: @Turkeydoodles Then go here: www.mathman.biz I learned from @TheMathman #hsmath |
|
3:07 am
|
giaimojosephine:
|
#HSmath Nothing is written in stone #hsmath except the 11th commandment: thou shalt teach both algorithms and applications! |
|
3:07 am
|
Turkeydoodles:
|
Great meeting all of you! Thanks for letting me derail @mathfour 's question! >;) #hsmath |
|
3:07 am
|
CutTheKnotMath:
|
@nolamom76 Perhaps, have a look here: http://bit.ly/7S3xvE (What is Fraction? - and much more) #HSMath |
|
3:08 am
|
EarlSamuelson:
|
RT @giaimojosephine: #HSmath Nothing is written in stone #hsmath except the 11th commandment: thou shalt teach both algorithms and applications! |
|
3:08 am
|
Turkeydoodles:
|
@giaimojosephine Nah - thou shalt have algorithms on hand if applications don't allow TIME for constructivism! ;) #hsmath |
|
3:08 am
|
mathheadinc:
|
@giaimojosephine Funny, students ALWAYS want to know when what they're learning is used in real life. #HSmath |
|
3:09 am
|
CutTheKnotMath:
|
@earlsamuelson Earl, you are very welcome. I am not a teacher but I know how hard is the job #HSMath |
|
3:09 am
|
Turkeydoodles:
|
So, @mathfour - what are we discussing next week? #hsmath |
|
3:09 am
|
Turkeydoodles:
|
@mathheadinc I figure that if they are asking that, I haven't structured my lesson very well! #hsmath |
|
3:11 am
|
EarlSamuelson:
|
@CutTheKnotMath I do appreciate it. I can learn an awful lot from you and others of your caliber. #HSmath |
|
3:11 am
|
Turkeydoodles:
|
(Not that pure math isn't fun in and of itself, but I try to let folks know when that's what something is!) #hsmath |
|
3:11 am
|
mathfour:
|
@Turkeydoodles Not sure yet. (sorry - Daughter woke up - had to see what was up. She never wakes.) #HSMath |
|
3:12 am
|
DrATP:
|
@mathfour They need fluency for college, eg, solve a linear or quadratic eq without starting from scratch. If no can't do new topics #HSMath |
|
3:12 am
|
mathfour:
|
I'll announce next week's topic at the beginning of the week. Remember, Thursdays, 9pm CST http://goo.gl/lcQyy #HSMath |
|
3:12 am
|
CutTheKnotMath:
|
@mathheadinc @giaimojosephine For the eGeneration it is easy. There wouldn't be web security without math. Networks would be stuck. #HSMath |
|
3:12 am
|
EarlSamuelson:
|
Thanks everyone; that was a
blast! #HSmath |
|
3:13 am
|
Turkeydoodles:
|
How about... "How stupid do school supply companies think we are, trying to sell us counters of every possible shape and size?? ;) #hsmath |
|
3:13 am
|
mathfour:
|
It was awesome y'all. Hope you got lots out of it. Have fun this weekend: good golf, good fishin' or WHATEVER makes you happy! #HSMath |
|
3:13 am
|
mathheadinc:
|
@CutTheKnotMath You know it, I know it. Kids have no clue. #HSMath |
|
3:13 am
|
mathfour:
|
@EarlSamuelson Thanks for coming! #HSMath |
|
3:14 am
|
Turkeydoodles:
|
Excellent, @mathfour - I'll be looking this weekend, then! Enjoy, and thanks again! #hsmath |
|
3:14 am
|
mathfour:
|
@CutTheKnotMath @mathheadinc @giaimojosephine Great to have y'all! #HSMath |
|
3:16 am
|
CutTheKnotMath:
|
@mathfour @mathheadinc @giaimojosephine @earlsamuelson @Turkeydoodles Remove my hat to all of you. #HSMath |
|
3:17 am
|
giaimojosephine:
|
RT @CutTheKnotMath: @mathfour @mathheadinc @giaimojosephine @earlsamuelson @Turkeydoodles Remove my hat to all of you. #HSMath |
|
3:19 am
|
giaimojosephine:
|
thanks again, everyone. g'nite all #HSMath |
|
3:21 am
|
mathheadinc:
|
Always FUN! RT @CutTheKnotMath: @mathfour @mathheadinc @giaimojosephine @earlsamuelson @Turkeydoodles Remove my hat to all of you. #HSMath |
|
3:21 am
|
mathheadinc:
|
Thanks to all for letting me butt in! #HSMath |
|
3:22 am
|
mathheadinc:
|
@Turkeydoodles Not necessarily. Their misunderstanding may precede you :) #hsmath |
|
3:22 am
|
EarlSamuelson:
|
RT @mathheadinc: Thanks to all for letting me butt in! #HSMath |
